We're celebrating World Kindness Day with a special episode featuring the work of kindness.org. Join guest host Robert Peterpaul as he interviews our CEO and co-founder, Jaclyn Lindsey, along with the Kindlab team—Dr. Oliver Scott Curry and Dr. Chloe San Miguel. They will discuss the importance of leading with kindness, the release of the Kindness Quotient (KQ), and the science behind it all.
Guest host Robert Peterpaul (The Art of Kindness) takes the host seat this week to speak with kindness.org CEO & Co-Founder Jaclyn Lindsey, as well as the Kindlab team- Dr. Oliver Scott Curry & Dr. Chloe San Miguel about the org & the science of kindness. Tune in as they introduce a groundbreaking kindness measurement tool (KQ) and engage in a little friendly competition.
It's World Kindness Week. Do you know your KQ? Visit kindness.org/KQ to get your KQ today!
This podcast is one of the many ways we live out our organization's mission to educate and inspire people to choose kindness. Visit our site kindness.org and sign up to become a part of our global community which spans more than 100 countries. It's free to join and when you do you'll be the first to get access to our latest research, tools, and even episodes of this podcast. Let's build a kinder world, together. Contact us at podcast@kindness.org or on social at @kindnessorg.
Important links from this week's episode:
kindness.org
kindness.org/kq
Credits
Transcript available at this link. https://why-kindness.simplecast.com/episodes/team-kindness/transcript
Intro: Why kindness? Because it makes a difference. For connection. Kindness can change lives. It's contagious. The science says you'll be glad you did. Kindness is powerful. The key to a healthier, happier world.
Jaclyn: Why kindness? While no one answer is the same, one thing is clear. Kindness is something we all know, but do we know why it matters?
I'm your host, Jaclyn Lindsay, co founder, CEO of kindness. org. And you're listening. To why kindness.
Rob: Hello friends. This is Jaclyn Lindsey, and you're listening to the why kindness podcast. You're probably wondering why I sound like I have an intense cold and that's because surprise, it's not actually Jaclyn at all. It's Jaclyn's friend, Robert Peterpaul. That kind of rhymed. I'm so honored to be sitting in Jaclyn's chair today, taking over the why kindness podcast to bring you a very special episode of why kindness.
This world kindness week, say that five times fast. Why kindness world kindness week, why kindness, in honor of a really exciting new venture that we have planned for you all. I am privileged to be the social media director of kindness. org, which has been certainly one of the highlights of my digital career.
I became connected to the org very organically because I have my own podcast called the art of kindness. And my journey here has had a lot of synergy, which I bring up because I feel like it is what kindness. org runs on. Everything is very intentional and all our partnerships and people are very meaningful.
So I won't blab on about me. I just thought you should know who this muppet in your ears is today. I am joined by what I consider to be. A trifecta of terrificness, three friends, coworkers, change makers, doctors that I admire immensely. I'm going to let each of them introduce themselves. So you can get used to each voice in your ear, spoiler alert.
You'll probably recognize at least two of them. And in that intro, I'll have you each also answer the question that's always asked on this podcast to stay consistent. I mean, it's the title. Why kindness? It only feels right to start, I think, with the birthday boy here. That's right. We got a birthday in the house.
Dr. Oliver Scott Curry, please begin by introducing yourself and then answering the question, why kindness?
Oliver: Well, thank you very much. Uh, it's a pleasure to be here again. Uh, yeah, my name's Dr. Oliver Scott Curry and I'm chief science officer for kindness.org. And why kindness? Well, um, I can't remember what I said last time, but because it's a very accessible and rewarding way to make the world a better place.
Rob: Mmm. I love that. And I hope it was different than last time. That's so beautiful. If you want to pass it on, anybody who feels moved to step into the audio void.
Chloe: Okay. Hello. Thanks for having me. I'm Dr. Chloe San Miguel. Um, I'm the research manager at kindness. org. And in terms of why kindness, I think. If it's not a good enough reason that it's good for everyone around you, if you're kind, it's also good for yourself.
So there's sort of selfish, uh, motivations to be kind as well, I think.
Rob: That's so true. And it's, it's science, correct?
Chloe: Yes, correct.
Rob: Well, let's see up, certainly last but not least, our CEO and co founder, the hostess with the mostest, Miss Jaclyn Lindsey.
Jaclyn: Thank you. I'm so, it feels a little funny being on the side of the interview, but I'm so excited to be here in this capacity. Um, yes. Jaclyn Lindsey here. I think you all know me. I'll go straight to my why kindness. Um, I, sincerely feel it's the most important through line to solve every modern problem in society. And I just think our world would be immensely better if it was at the forefront of how we showed up as humans every single day.
Rob: I couldn't agree more. And especially this week, World Kindness Week, it's it's more important than ever. And also this This birthday, we'll say. Now with all these answers, I just want to set the tone that we do reserve the rights to change our minds. It's ever evolving, so there's no pressure there on you all.
I know listeners have heard a bit about your backstory, Jaclyn, your powerful story, the origin story that led you to kindness.org, and Dr. Curry here as well has had an episode. Please go back and listen if you have not to those. So Dr. San Miguel, would you mind briefly sharing with us your journey to kindness?
Chloe: Yeah, absolutely. And you can call me Chloe.
Rob: I can? She is a doctor though. Don't forget it.
Chloe: Thank you. Thank you. You know, a lot of school, so it is nice to hear it every once in a while. But, um, yeah, so I, I found kindness. org when I was still finishing up my PhD, when I was still in graduate school and I was just sort of scoping out the job market, which It's scary to do, but sort of keeping an eye on things, getting ready to graduate.
And I saw a job listing for, at the time, just a part time research assistant. And I thought, well, I can do that right now. I don't need to wait to graduate to get in there. So I applied very eagerly, and I felt really strongly about it. I really hoped I would get at least an interview so I could learn more about the organization and just talk with everyone if nothing else.
Um, and it just worked out perfectly and I was able to come on more and more hours and then eventually full time and just, yeah, synergistically, like you said, it just lined up perfectly and And I've been married over, over a year. I don't think like two yet.
Rob: And we're so glad you're here. And I think that kind of perfectly teases up for our next question, which is that I know for me, when I first connected with the organization and Jaclyn, I felt like it was a rare experience because when do you get to sort of hop on a call with the CEO and the leader almost immediately?
And. This sort of brings up a question I've had for a while, which is when I look at you, Jaclyn, our kind leader, who everyone in this audio room admires, and so many people do, what is sort of your secret sauce to being such a kind leader? I know we have research to support the fact that kind leaders are better leaders overall, but I'd love if you could kind of distill your approach.
To leadership here.
Jaclyn: I will say I just think it's an easier way to show up I know that I got to where I was in my career because of the kindness of others who were willing To give me their time and mentorship and wisdom and support and I do genuinely feel It's a healthier more fun Way to live and lead and be a part of a team and culture Some days it's hard and I have to try really hard to show, you know With a smile, um, if I'm having a tough day or something like that.
But then I remember we're also all people bringing in our own things. And so I think the power of kindness is that it's not always about showing up with a smile. It's more just showing up real and being messy sometimes and being okay to know that we're all human. Humans navigating this big, messy, complicated world.
And we're showing up at this organization. Everyone's here, I feel with no ego. And so I don't need to have ego in this, you know, my heart and desires for the mission and the world. Doing work that makes a difference in the world. And I just want to do that alongside people who are smart and committed and passionate.
So if I get to do that, which I do every day, three of you are walking, breathing examples of that. It's humbling. And my desire is to hopefully lead in a way that inspires everyone to want to show up and do their best.
Rob: Well, thank you for doing that. It's so special. And I, I feel like I, I probably sound like a broken record here because every time I talk to you in Slack, I'm like, I appreciate you.
You're the best, but you are. And I think I bring it up this week because World Kindness Week is a special time where we get to. inspire new kindness leaders. We're hoping everyone can activate kindness and you two doctors certainly are leaders as well. So feel free to chime in here. But what's interesting to me is that I would imagine being a leader of an organization called kindness.org. I mean, even sort of when I asked you the question, I saw this like. I don't know. I'm just sort of me across your face, which is probably why you are who you are, but I feel like it can come with a lot of pressure, right? I mean, our mission is to study kindness and the pressure to be kind is, I think, relatable as a person across the board.
I find you do a beautiful job with this. I mean, I sort of will compare you to, um, the people's princess, Princess Diana in a way. That's right. I did just compare you to Princess Diana. I just feel like you, um, you're very attainable and yet you still sit in a power position, which is really hard. And so. I wonder how you navigate that pressure, and all, I mean, any of you can chime in here, how do you sort of navigate that pressure and find the balance between being a leader, but also being an accessible one that's not sort of leaning into the power of it all, if that makes sense?
Jaclyn: Uh, well, I, I credit my parents for teaching me, you never look down on someone unless you're helping them up. And so I do genuinely just approach a person as a person. Um, I don't care about their title, their pocketbook paycheck, like their accolades, none of that's relevant to me. I just try to look at everyone as a person.
And I think seeing that has allowed me to really treat. Everyone equally and with dignity and worthy of respect and care and compassion. And I hope that that translates in how I show up as a leader with my team. And second to that, or, or, you know, related, I would say from day one, I've really embraced the idea that you hire smarter than you.
So I know I'm not the smartest person at the table and I'm here to work. Be inspired by everybody. So I want to work alongside people that make me better and there's mutual respect. So it's Not so much top down, but it's all of us around the table, bringing our different talents and skills and knowledge to do this work collectively and collaboratively.
Rob: Hmm. So at the top of your answer, you actually mentioned things that are measurable, which is really interesting. I find, I don't even know if you realize doing it, but measured things that sort of are holding value. And we're going to get into that. Why I bring that up here. But before we do, perhaps we throw it to the people that are definitely at least smarter than I.
Our organization to set some context. If you listen to the show, you know this, but it starts and ends with the science of kindness. And I think that's what makes it so special and unique. I'd love to know if there has been one piece of research that either of you have worked on in regards to kindness that felt the most.
Pivotal to you. I know they're probably all your babies, but it'd be great to get one piece of research that you feel like really struck you. Even the first that comes to mind today.
Oliver: Uh, Rob, I want you to make a, a meta point before we get there. Just, uh, just from what Jaclyn said about how to be, how to be kind.
And, and I just wanted to say that. For me, at least it comes from doing science. So I think there's a stereotype of scientists that they're, they're know it all, they're arrogant, they're masters of the universe, they meddle with things they shouldn't understand and tell everyone what to do, but that's an example of science gone wrong.
The reality of science is you, you're always dealing with things that you don't understand. And most of the time you are finding out that you're wrong. And most of the discoveries you make are how, how wrong you are. So doing science, doing research enforces. humility, intellectual humility, you're constantly reminded that you never know if you're right and you're, and you're often wrong, that anything you think Uh, you could always be wrong about anything you think that's true in principle and when it comes to hardcore science, but I find that's also the case just on a more interpersonal level.
Like it's always the case that your plan or your suggestion or whatever could be, you do your best, but it could be wrong. It could be improved upon and it can be improved upon. By others trying to be scientific trying to figure things out is very much a commitment to for example being open to other people's ideas because good ideas can come from anywhere and you don't have Certainly don't have a monopoly on them Chloe can tell me tell us whether I managed to whether I carry that out, but that's certainly my intention and that comes You know, I'm that's mainlined from basic philosophy of science.
Rob: Thank you for sharing that I feel like you can't complete the circle if you're not open. Does that make sense? I just popped into my head I don't know chloe. Do you have anything that you would like to add on?
Chloe: No, I just I think that there's the the adage of the more you learn the less, you know And no one's been in more classrooms than people with phds and have been forced to learn and learn and learn so I think we we're very aware of the the limits of our knowledge and what we don't know and who could be a better expert than us, you know, on, on different topics.
And when you said like, these people smarter than me, I made a little bit of a face because I was like, oh, we're not smarter than you. We're just smart in different ways where, you know, we have a very sort of focused, uh, research area. I would never know how to produce a podcast or host one. So.
Rob: Oh, no, I appreciate that.
I'm a very self deprecating little Muppet, which, um, I don't know. It's just part of my DNA, I guess. But I would love to know if either of you sort of have that pivotal piece of research. It can be a recent one or a first one that made you feel like, okay, this is fertile ground. This is exciting. There's, there's so much rich soil here.
Oliver: Generally speaking, it's a very exciting time to be working on kindness and pro social behavior and cooperation and morality and all the things just because whereas once upon a time it was a purely sort of philosophical area of inquiry. Now there's tons of amazing research on genetics and computer simulations and animal behavior and psychology and neuroscience and anthropology and economics and blah, blah, blah.
Um, so there's just tons we know about it that we didn't, um, before. So there's, there's lots of amazing examples. I think one of the things that I've learned about more recently and is very striking is just how early. The capacity for kindness in various ways emerges in infants. Some only. a few months old.
So there's experiments, for example, showing that babies, four month old babies have the beginning of a sense of fairness. They can, they, they watch little vignettes where puppets are given different numbers of cookies. Um, and they are, they are, they notice and are surprised when, for example, the cookies are not given out evenly.
When one of the. Puppets is treated unfairly and it's similar for other aspects of kindness, not just fairness, but helping group mates or helping members of family or turning favors or recognizing who, who owns things and what, you know, what constitutes stealing lots of different types of good, good behavior and bad behavior.
Um, so the fact that these things spring up, you know, so early before. Babies can eat, you know, obviously before they can, they can talk, um, is, is amazing to me. And, and although it's not conclusive, it certainly suggests very strongly that the, or supports the theory that humans have a range of innate capacities for kindness that come online surprisingly, uh, swiftly.
Rob: That innate kindness is so special. I feel like sometimes we're almost polishing the fossil in some people in a lot of ways, because everyone has the kindness. within them. And so all this research sort of helps to peel back the onion layers. Too many metaphors coming in here. My grandma always talked about how if one baby cries in the incubation room at the hospital, then all the rest will cry because of that empathy.
I don't know if that's a true study. You can, you can cite me on, on that, but I know I certainly always ask these questions to Chloe, our Dr. San Miguel. I can't stop because we have so much fun month to month sort of studying Thinking of how our signs can show up on social media, at least. Has, has any research stood out to you recently that you really vibed with?
Chloe: Uh, well, you know, when you asked the question, I thought you were asking research that we've been like a part of or done ourselves. So my mind got kind of stuck on research projects that we've done. Um, and I, I think just coming into Kindness. org and seeing how Signed Lab operationalized kindness for me was sort of very interesting and neat, because I was sort of familiar with.
Positive psychology of the field and sort of pro sociality measures, which is the boring word for kindness in, in academia, it's called pro sociality, um, and there's sort of self report measures where you're sort of taking people's face value word, you know, would you do this kind of thing or this kind of thing, yes or no, whereas in KindLab, not to jump the gun and get ahead there, but the, in the, in the kindness questionnaire, in the KQ, we operationalize kindness and really sort of.
interesting way that builds off of past research on welfare trade off ratios, and it was just new to me and more exciting than the typical self report measure, which is what I had always been interested in. So, uh, the way that we're actually defining it is really interesting.
Rob: Yeah, I think this is the perfect time to bring up the questionnaire in the room, which is all of our research and work.
It really feels like it has led up to this magnificent moment in time that you all have really shepherded. And I'm going to help hopefully amplify. First of all, What is a KQ? Let's tell the people out there what they can expect to find on kindness. org this week. I'll throw it to Jaclyn because she hasn't spoken in a while.
Jaclyn: What I'll do is give the background and context of how the KQ came to be and then I'll have Kind Labs speak to more about that. Uh, what it is and how to contextualize it for the audience. Um, so Oliver and Dr. Curry and I have worked together now eight years and, uh, I felt my narrative of our working relationship is I had this really tall order for him when he, officially joined us as a consultant, which was, I need your help measuring kindness.
And this was in response to wanting to position kindness as something that was indeed measurable. I think when kindness. org started, we were always committed to the science of kindness, but to Chloe's point, it was going beyond. The positive psychology side and really looking at precision and a container for people to operate around within themselves.
What is kindness? Because it felt understood by everyone and yet personal to everyone. And everyone seemed to think of kindness differently, but we all knew what it was. And I really hope that kindness. org could be a launchpad for people to engage with kindness in a, New and fresh and innovative kind of way and I also wanted to be able to report back on the impact of kindness if we're guiding people to choose kindness with acts like Holding a door open for someone or smiling at a stranger or or saying good morning to a neighbor.
Why? What is that really doing? What benefit is it offering? How effective are these choices? Could we start to create some kind of a, I don't know, a rubric or a tool guide for people. And these were all the things that I brought to Oliver. Can we measure it? Can we show the benefit of action? Can we show how this kind of act can have an impact on somebody?
Can we look at this across different kinds of people, different recipients? Can we look at it on ourselves and just really big theoretical stuff on a white board. And over the past several years, that is what kind lab I, I think has set out to try to do is to figure out how do we measure it and how do we then.
To the real through line of who kindness. org is take the science and apply it into solutions, tools, products that are for the lay person to engage with. So taking it from an academic publication to then how does this. Matter or show up or mean something to the everyday person, wherever they are in the world, to come be a part of this journey with us.
And then it was in the hands of Kind Lab to figure all that out. So that's how I would contextualize where we're at with this week and what we're launching.
Rob: Yes. Well, how, how did you figure that out Kind Lab, that my doctor duo? I would love to know because it really is so accessible. It's so fun. It's so clean.
It's so easy. It takes. minutes to take this. And I know you've spent a lot more than just minutes. You've spent many minutes on, on this process. Please elaborate for all of us.
Oliver: Well, maybe I'll kick off Chloe. So yeah, so like Jaclyn says, I think people tend to think of kindness as something fluffy and soft and it can be, and that's, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's, it's also a real thing, a real.
personality trait, a real thing you can do in the world that has consequences and for you and others. Um, and like I say, it's been the subject of a lot of very serious research. So what we tried to do is really combine two worlds, like combine the latest and best experimental psychology on measuring kindness with a more sort of accessible front end. So sometimes it's like the combination of cognitive science and cosmopolitan magazine in that you get the best of both. And the basic idea behind the kindness questionnaire and your KQ, when you, when you take it, um, is that we, we think of kindness as in terms of the ABCs action taken to benefit others at some cost.
So it's paying a cost to, to benefit others. And Previous work had measured the, and people differ in how kind they are. They differ in how much cost they're willing to pay for a given benefit to somebody else. So some people are very kind. They'll pay a large cost, even if it's just a small benefit to somebody else.
Um, other people are less kind. They'll only pay a large cost if it's a large benefit to somebody else. And previous work had measured all this stuff with money. They'd use sort of money sharing tasks to say, for example, would you give up 5, if that means a stranger received 10, would you give up 7? If that meant a stranger received 8, um, and so on.
And by looking at people's answers to those kinds of questions, they could put a precise figure, a ratio on what cost willing people were willing to pay to benefit others. So what we've done is we've taken that exact same logic, but we've applied it to everyday acts of kindness. So things like, would you hold a door open for, Uh, in this case, uh, a neighbor, would you, would you cover a neighbor's tab?
Would you look after a neighbor's pet? Would you lend your neighbor a cup of sugar or whatever it is? And what we did was, first of all, we gathered together a thousand different kind acts, things that you could do for others, including your neighbors. And then we had 10, 000 people rate these acts for how costly they were and how beneficial they were.
So now we have this huge database of a thousand acts of kindness rated for their cost and benefit. Which allows us to do things like. Um, figure out what are the easiest things to do, which are the most challenging things to do, which things are most beneficial, which things have the best, get the most bang for your buck, but it also enabled us to, to pull acts from that database to use as a questionnaire.
And then we can ask people, okay, we can present people with a, a list of increasingly challenging things to do for neighbors or anyone else and see which things they're willing to do and which things they're not willing to do. And usually, you know, people are willing to do the low cost high benefit things, but as the cost increases and the benefit decreases, People say, okay, yes, I do this, I do this, but I wouldn't do that.
I'll, I'll stop at this point. And people stop at different points. But because we have this information in the background about the cost and benefits, we can put a precise figure on how kind they are. To cut a long story short, it, that translates into your, your kq. So it might be, you might end up with a KQ of, uh, 50% or 75% or a hundred percent or 110%, and, and what that means.
Precisely, it's not just an arbitrary figure like, Oh, you've scored seven out of 10. Um, it, it precisely means, uh, the percentages, how much you care about others relative to how much you care about yourself. So if, if you were to get a score, for example, of a hundred percent, that means you care about other people, the same, a hundred percent of the amount you care about yourself, so you care about other people, the same as yourself.
Um, if you get a KQ of 50%, That means you care about other people half as much as you care about yourself. And you can get anything. You could also, you could even, you could have a KQ of 110%. That would mean that you care about other people more than you care about yourself.
Rob: That's really interesting too, because that, that result actually may beckon the work to do a little self kindness on yourself to make sure you're also not giving from an empty cup.
Oliver: Yeah. There's, there isn't a perfect number. There isn't the exactly the exact right amount. Um, and yes, you could, it's possible to be. In principle, it's possible to be too kind, just as it's possible to be to unkind or, or not, not kind enough. It depends. The optimal amount of kindness depends on your exact situation and what kind of person you are and what opportunities, social opportunities you have in your, in your world.
Rob: Yeah. Thank you for breaking that down. I think what I'm also very curious about is this decision to focus on neighbors this time around. I know that's rooted in the research you just described, but Chloe, maybe you can share the conversations you're having in kind lab about. Your hopes for the evolution of the KQ as it continues to grow?
What sorts of questions are you hoping to add in or explore? Because I imagine it'll just keep growing and growing.
Chloe: Right. So, yeah, we tested the KQ with a number of different types of recipients. So, family members and friends and neighbors and strangers, um, and sort of the issue we're running into with family and friends is, uh, in a way we didn't find like the limit of how kind people will be to their friends and family.
Um, everyone was reporting they would be very, very kind to their friends and family, which is good, um, but doesn't help us with, um, sort of getting a range of scores on a measure. Right. So we wanted one that there would be a greater. Range of scores there, Oliver you.
Oliver: Yeah, they were, people were much kinder than we expected to family and friends. So they went off the top of the scale. So we have to, we have to recalibrate that one. Right.
Chloe: Yeah. Um, so neighbors is the, is the one we're launching this is. The KQ, which is great because people have different relationships with their neighbors, right? I just moved to this neighborhood. Um, I Can count on one hand the number of times I've spoken to most of my neighbors Most of ours are non verbal interactions with waving and smiling So my score might look very different than it had when I lived In an apartment complex and was friends with the person across the street and hung out with them on a regular basis.
So, that relationship sort of matters. Um, so expanding the KQ to encompass more relationships, closer relationships, and then also relationships with strangers where you don't have much of a relationship.
Rob: Yeah, it is so situational like you're saying, which I think is wonderful because to Dr. Curry's point, there, there is no right or wrong answer.
I wonder to get your best score, this is personally what I think I sort of struggled with, which is that I can go into this quiz almost lying to myself. So do you have any advice on when someone sits down to take the KQ, how they can get their best score, how they can not lie to themselves, you know, how they can just sort of be very honest when they're answering these questions.
I wonder if there's like a mindset that, cause we've all taken it, that anyone's, anyone's found to help them.
Oliver: Well, I think if you, you know, if you want to find out how good a liar you are, then lie. Um, if you'd want to find out how kind you are, then. You know, obviously give your, give your honest answer and make, you know, I, I found when doing it, just imagine you're in that situation where the opportunity presents itself and what, what's your, what's your impulse?
What do you, um, what do you think you would, you would honestly do?
Chloe: I think most psychopsychology measures will instruct you to go with your gut, to go with your first instinct, um, and not overthink it too much and get hung up on, well, in this situation, I might do this way, or adding in other variables that aren't in the question in front of you. So just sort of going with your gut and yeah, trying to place yourself there. And then, yeah, if you, if you want to lie, you can, um, you know, it was funny for me to be taking the KQ this morning. I know how to get the high score. Um, but I had to sort of place myself in these situations and then be truthful.
That's the only way you're gonna get your actual measure.
Rob: Yes. Going with your gut is great advice across the board in life. And I would love for the three of you to go with your gut as we enter a little flash round ding, ding, ka ching, ka ching. One thing kindest. org is also famous for that I've experienced at least virtually. Are these lovely holiday parties where we have these really fun games, mostly developed by shout out, Melissa, shout out to Melissa. And so I would love to sort of close this out with a little KQ flash round, as we've been talking about kindness and relationship to neighbors is sort of the focus of the KQ as of now note neighbor, I believe is still sort of left up for interpretation.
It could literally be your neighbor, but it could be a bit more, um, more broad, I believe, in regards to these questions. So I'm going to ask questions, and whoever buzzes in first, which is just talking, honestly, will, will answer. Whoever answers the most buzzes in first. win something and we'll see what that is.
Uh, I would appreciate, you could just pop in with whatever comes to your mind first. It doesn't have to be long. It can be super quick and we'll, we'll kind of fly through it, but hopefully it's fun for all of you. And this was developed by me, so it is not a science based questionnaire. Let me put that little asterisk in here right now.
Okay. Are we ready? All right. The first one is, and again, whoever wants to jump in first, please dive into this wild kind ocean. Kind act you have done for a neighbor.
Jaclyn: Bing. Um, we helped, um, our neighbor clean up debris, um, in their yard, uh, after a hurricane hit.
Rob: That's beautiful, Jaclyn. Yes, I know that's so, so timely, and so many people out there helping each other in that regard, I'm hoping, right now, which is wonderful.
On the opposite side, starting off with a little softball, A kind act a neighbor has done for you.
Oliver: I have a very kind neighbor called Jo who works in a coffee company and she, she gives me a delightful range of coffee beans.
Rob: Okay, the irony is not lost on me that that's a cup of joe or a kind coffee, kind coffee, little plug there.
I am drinking kind coffee right now. I will show everyone not, not lying. I love it. Mushroom based. Okay. The next one is what's the kindest compliment you've been given by a neighbor
Jaclyn: I've had a neighbor compliment my kids. Yeah, so you just feel so proud. Like mom moment that they have noticed them.
Rob: That's the best. Okay, a kind welcoming act to a new neighbor that you've received or given.
Chloe: I think I'm, I lived in a college apartment and I was, people were moving in as I was moving out and I just gave a lot of my stuff to people and it was sort of benefited myself as well because one less thing I have to move, but they got, you know, window air conditioning units and such out of it, so I think it was a win win for both of us.
Rob: That's so kind. I just got a flashback to my mom throwing every right into the dumpster as we were moving out. Not to out my mom. What is the word that comes to mind besides kind or kindness when you think of your dream neighborhood?
Oliver: Community. Um, in that I'm very lucky to live in a very, uh, nice village where Everyone knows each other, all our kids go to the same school, there's lots of overlap, we go to the same do's, we pick up each other's kids from the school, and so just that sort of network creates so many opportunities to help and be helped, um, it's extremely valuable and appreciated.
Rob: Hmm, I love that. And looking at a community, if you were throwing a neighborhood block party, what theme would it be?
Chloe: Ding, ding, ding. I'm gonna have to go with whatever holiday is nearby. I love a seasonal holiday theme.
Rob: I love it. A pop culture or famous figure that you think would make the ideal neighbor and why?
Chloe: Oh, ding, ding. Mr. Rogers. Famously, the best neighbor.
Jaclyn: Yeah, that's a really good one. I'll, I'll, I'll ding and say, I'd love the Obamas next to me, they'd just, they'd be great neighbors. Will you share your book list?
Oliver: I want to say Jim Henson for some reason, but it might be because you mentioned Muppets earlier on.
Rob: That would be so fun. And I'll just say Dolly Parton.
Jaclyn: Love Dolly.
Rob: For any of you, what's one small science based act of kindness everyone around the world could do for a neighbor?
Jaclyn: Go ask if you can help them with anything.
Rob: I love that. I'm gonna have all of you answer that because it's, it's the science.
Oliver: Strike up a conversation with someone, with a neighbor that you haven't spoken to before. Um, because, uh, who knows, it could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
Rob: I love that. What is it? I'm thinking of shows like Boy Meets World. And then also what's the one, was it Tool Time? There's the Tim Allen show where he always talks to the neighbor.
Jaclyn: Home Improvement.
Rob: Home Improvement, Behind the Fence. Those are some of the best scenes. It's just connecting with the neighbor. You don't even see the face. Chloe, I feel like you also can answer this question well.
Chloe: It's sort of similar to Oliver's. I think introducing yourself to a neighbor that you don't know because that will sort of, you know, open the door to other future acts of kindness.
It's hard to be, to be kind to someone you've never even touched face with before. So, rip that bandaid off.
Oliver: And the, and the research shows, experiments show that although people are often reluctant to do that, if they do, they're glad that they did. They, uh, find it much more rewarding than they thought they would.
Rob: It really it can change the whole energy in the room. I know when I'm on my walk if I smile at someone, I mean when I used to have a mask on during the pandemic it was sort of eye bulging and that was maybe a little creepy looking back, but whenever I do smile at someone now I feel so much better as I continue my walk and then they smile and they smile at someone else and it's that beautiful ripple effect.
As we have just completed this flash round I will say the winner is Wait, okay, this just in. Each of you has actually taken our KQ. I have all of your scores here And can reveal who KQ has deemed at this moment in time the kindest and that will be our actual winner Okay, are you ready? The moment we've all been waiting for The human with the highest kindness quotient is Each of them have sent me their scores this morning Fresh out of the cup of Joe the kind coffee To no surprise, Jaclyn Lindsey!
Crowd: Woo! Ah!
Rob: I do want to flag, may I share each of your scores? Is that, is that okay?
Chloe: Sure.
Rob: As of now. Okay. I do want to flag this because I think it's, it's really cool. Jaclyn at 89 percent won, Chloe was in the middle with 73, and Oliver was at 64. And I think that's really special to hear because the people that actually created this quotient took it seriously and answered honestly.
And we're not just trying to tell you that we all received 100%, which might not even be the right answer. So. How are you all feeling getting your scores? There really isn't a winner.
Oliver: Actually, I misspoke earlier on, and 64 percent is actually the best score.
Rob: I thought so. I thought so. I mean, it is your birthday, so maybe we should round up.
Oliver: I want to say a general thing, like, um, I think that sometimes a cynic might think that Oh, people, people don't care about others at all. And they might expect that people taking this test would all come out with zero percent. They don't care about other people at all. They wouldn't put themselves out for others at all.
And it's easy to believe that sometimes if you just look at the headlines. Well, I think one of, to me, another interesting finding in general is that, uh, that's not, that's not the case. And in all of the research that's been, been done using this, this kind of, uh, methodology. The, the typical KQs are always in double figures, always somewhere north of, um, 50 percent.
And even, so I'm trying to think of the lowest ones, even, I think the lowest ones I've seen are something like 30 percent to strangers. So even, it's not the case that people would do, wouldn't even cross the road to, To help a stranger, uh, you know, in distress that there's a, there's a baseline of kindness that, that everyone practices and, uh, sort of can rely on this, this way above a zero.
And then beyond that, you know, it's all gravy when you're talking about not just strangers, but. Colleagues or neighbors or family or friends. Um, it's really very, uh, the results are really very encouraging and, um, we're all reflecting different aspects of that normal curve, but the, but the average is, is, um, heartwarmingly high.
Rob: Hmm. That is heartwarming to hear. Very heartlifting. And I think what's important to note too, is what we're saying that this round of KQ is focused on neighbors. So there's a question about taking in a neighbor's child, just because you are in the position to take a child in doesn't mean that you aren't going to help find the child a home.
It doesn't, it doesn't mean that you're
not being kind to your own family by not adding to it. I mean, there's sort of other outliers that we can remember when we get these scores as well. This is like very specific to Neighbors.
Jaclyn: Yeah. I think I'd love to add to that. I hadn't taken this until today that really, honestly, this is my first time going through it for Neighbor.
It felt fresh and new and Taking it, I went with my gut and I tried to be really thoughtful like that one about the taking a child in and what I want to remind anyone who takes it, kindness is so many things and this is one facet of how you Take action to help other people and, uh, your willingness to help other people.
And sometimes people argue with me, they're like, well, you should focus on teaching compassion for people. And I think all of the idea of kindness is choice and how we take action to help others. So if you feel compassion for someone, but don't do anything about it. That person's not getting the benefit of your compassion.
So this is really meant and intended what I felt to think about it more. How do I show up as a neighbor and to get into a dialogue with myself and maybe those around me, how are we choosing kindness? How are we taking action to help others? How are we showing up as a neighbor? And I think that. Was encouraging.
Like you can't game the system, you know, it's just meant to really start to get you to think about your own kindness and hopefully motivate you to do something a little different um, when you go home and, and show up in your neighborhood. Uh, that, that's what I held onto and that's what I would encourage listeners to remember.
Rob: It's so special. Yes. The whole goal is to activate that kindness. I think Dr. Curry wanted to activate another answer here, so I'm going to pass it there. Yeah. Another one. Um, my transitions are so corny.
Oliver: Yeah. It's like, you know, if talking about corny, if, you know, if a tree falls in the forest and no one's there to hear it, does it really make a sound?
And I think about that when it comes to compassion. So if you feel compassion, but don't do anything about it, did you, you know, does it, did it really happen? Does it, if it's, it's not acted upon or, you instigated. So all these things correlate, you know, people measure there's, there are other measures of empathy and compassion and generosity and, um, uh, and, and pro social behavior.
So all these things pull in the same direction, but we really wanted to focus on translating some of those deeper motives into action, seeing how they.
Rob: Speaking of the action of it all, I'd love to end our time together. Well, I wouldn't love to end it because I always enjoy being around you all, but I'd love to go around and share a tangible kindness tip.
This is something I asked for on my own podcast that listeners can this week and beyond do to make the world a little kinder on their own corner. So this can be a science based one. I would love for each of you to. leave us with an action. And while they're thinking, I will say that listeners just by tuning into this episode, you've already committed to kindness in a way.
And that is an action as well. So kudos to you. We love you. Jaclyn.
Jaclyn: My tip would be to get your, take your KQ. Get your KQ, and then commit to do one kind act in response to it. I'll leave it up to everyone to figure out what that means for themselves, but start with taking the KQ and learning more about yourself.
Chloe: I will go ahead and say one that, and this isn't something in the KQ, or backed by our research, but something I've just been trying to remind myself to do, and that is say the nice thing out loud. Um, because I often will, sort of, think a nice thing, a kind thought about someone and being, oh, I love her shoes, or whatever, and then I, I keep it to myself, and it doesn't count, there's a tree in the forest, so, to just say it out loud, if you feel a little awkward.
Yeah, something I've been reminding myself to do.
Oliver: I think my generic tip is when you're in that moment when you, you might do something, you could go either way. If you have the opportunity to do something kind and you're thinking, will I, won't I, just like err on the side of kindness and just give, give it a whirl.
Do, do one step further than you normally do. And, see how it feels, um, experiment with kindness and find the, the, the level that's right for you. Um, the, the science suggests you'll be, you'll be glad you did.
Rob: You all three just laid a beautiful path, take the KQ and then it, it ended with your recommendation here.
And I think it reminds me as well, that don't be afraid to go back and take the KQ again, after some time has passed or after you've, you know, Committed to kindness a bit more because we're all ever evolving. These scores are changing. The KQ will likely change in a certain period of time anyway. So I think that's important to know.
And I will add, please also make sure that you challenge a friend to take the KQ after you've done so help us activate kindness. Around the world. This was just a bowl of sunshine. I admire and respect you all so much Thank you for letting me take the mic and be a little Muppet over here again third time I've said Muppet if you're keeping track Thank you all for tuning in and please remember to go to kindness org and get your KQ right now Thank you all any any other final words very much.
Jaclyn: This was amazing.
All: Happy World Kindness Week.
Outro: Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of the Why Kindness podcast. To learn more about everything you heard today from our wonderful guests, definitely check out our show notes. We hope you're leaving this episode inspired and reminded that every kind act truly does make a difference.
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